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Joe (00:06.286)

Welcome to Voices in Local Government. My name is Joe Superville. With me to talk about searching, interviewing, getting, and doing the job of city county manager is Dean Huard, city manager of the Hills, Texas, and Talon Burgess, currently interviewing and open to start his next chapter in local government soon. Thanks for joining, guys.


Dean Huard (00:55.087)

Thanks for having us.


Talon Burgess (00:56.793)

Yeah, thanks for having us, Joe.


Joe (00:58.062)

So Talon and Dean were both in ICMA's Veterans and Local Government Management Program, and Dean covered the details of how that program works and how it benefits both sides by matching organizations with fellows in episode 27. So that's going to be linked wherever you're listening now, or you could just scroll through Apple or whatever the feed is to find it. We also recommend anyone listening to share that episode and this one with a vet who might be looking for their transition into local government or even...


manager themselves or an HR type who might be looking or needing some support on their team. So that was episode 27. Now we're on 44, 45, depending on when this airs with a variety of experts and topics. So I just want to take a second to thank everyone who's recommended the show to their colleagues or staff. So Dean, Talon, job search. It can be a messy thing, especially maybe transitioning from the military or really any other field, but Dean, you went through this a year ago. Talon is in the process as we speak. So what are your initial thoughts and eventually have some sub questions, but how did you start and specifically, how did you decide what type or what level of job to go after, whether that was the top CAO level, maybe assistant or department head, how did you find those conclusions? Dean, you want to start there?


Dean Huard (02:17.455)

Sure thing. Yeah, I started a couple of years ago. I started a couple of years prior to my transition out of the military. For me, it was just looking for additional opportunities to serve. I did not want to do the federal GS route. I thought about maybe doing corporate America because I was a army logistician. So I could have gone to go work for Amazon, Tesla, a big company like that.


But I really want to continue to serve. So three years prior, I started looking for opportunities to serve in my local community. I joined the planning and zoning board of small town called Nolanville, Texas, just outside of Fort Hood, Texas. And that started kind of getting into what a city does, how it operates. And then again, while I was still on active duty, whenever I was TDY or going on a business trip, I would set up a, I'd set up an office call with a local city manager. We would go to like the national training center in Fort Irwin, California. And I set up a meeting with Brian Jones, city manager for Eastville, California. But I did that all over the country. So that was part of the plan was, you know, trying to talk to as many people as I could. I talked to a lot of different veterans that had made the transition.


Dean Huard (03:44.239)

And again, the great thing about doing the research was that nobody said no. I everybody I talked to was excited that a veteran wanted to leave active duty and then transition into local government because again, it's just another form of service. So that's how I went about it.


Joe (04:08.654)

Did those managers, those managers that you connected with, were you through another contact? Did you just find their email on the, on the website publicly? Like how did you reach out if, if the listeners are thinking about doing the same thing? Cause that can be kind of an awkward thing. Like, Hey, do you have time for me? Um, can I come meet you? Can I, can we have a call? It's not always an easy ask. So how'd you do it?


Dean Huard (04:28.047)

Yeah. Well, so in my prior job, before I got on active duty, I did do some sales and marketing. So I had no, no issue at all with picking up the phone. And, um, but in today's day and age, it's all through LinkedIn. So I would, you know, get on LinkedIn, send a note to somebody and say, Hey, I'm coming to town. Or if it was local, um, you know, I would try to set up a, set up an office call with, with a local city manager. So that was my route. And I'm sure Talon was the same way, just him and I started talking a year ago when he was going through his transition as well.


Talon Burgess (05:14.137)

So my process was I kind of found city management like five years ago and I started something about just driving around the city. I just really wanted to know how it worked, how's it run? That just really sparked my interest. So I came across it on LinkedIn, found it just thinking about if I were to retire from the Marine Corps, what am I going to do after? So I wanted options. So I started directing my degrees towards city management, learning that you know.


Talon Burgess (05:40.793)

looks good if you have an MPA and start, you know, direct that to business and government. And then I started looking at associations like ICMA or we also have MMASC in Southern California, a municipal management association and, you know, networked through ICMA utilizing the, I was able to reach, get in contact with city managers to kind of, you know, get some, get some information, talk to me about the job. What, what kind of things do I need to do?


Talon Burgess (06:11.609)

kind of get me lined up because I was looking for a city manager role. And now I'm kind of looking for like a deputy city manager, something that I could, you know, work my way up and continue to learn. So that's what I'm looking for right now. But ICMA has been super helpful. I did an emerging leaders development program with ICMA, which is a two year program that got me a certificate. So that allowed me to learn a little bit more about local government. And then I kind of just, yeah, staying involved with the organizations and talking with people and trying to get them. just get some feedback on how I can transition from the military into local government. Unfortunately, I didn't always have the best, you when I was talking with people, they weren't all like one kind of told me, you know, why don't I just become like a firefighter or police officer? And, you know, I was, it kind of got that. And you know, that, you know, I didn't really like that, but you know, that's part of it too. And the transition, it's not going to be easy. You got to be resilient. You got to, you're going to get through these. You know, you're going to have your ups and your downs, and you're going to be submitting a lot of resumes and applying, but just being resilient in the process has really helped me out.


Joe (07:15.358)

Yeah, and we'll get to how military background can apply, but I think there's still sometimes that stereotype where police, fire, emergency service type is where they assume the military people might end up. But the truth is, officer or not, there's some management and leadership skills, whatever the specialty is, that can transfer over to what the local government needs, whether it's the CAO spot, the assistant CAO, or any of the department heads, anything else. The job search itself though, there are a lot of resources will link the ICMA job board, which is pretty popular, but I think you both hit it too, just networking too. Cause you're not necessarily talking to someone on LinkedIn and then trying to get them to hire you or even say like, Oh, well what about your spot? Cause that's not going to work. But one of those things where once you grow your network and you know, more people, they know the openings or they know, Hey, I know this town, this city is looking for X, Y, or Z and maybe at least gets you an introduction.

Dean Huard (08:14.351)

Well, it's like Talents did too. Yeah, sorry to cut, but Joe, it's like what Talents did too. Those like, it's not just, it's not just ICMA, but the state associations. And I think you really have to be a good marketer when it comes to selling yourself because, and it's all about targeting your market. I mean, when I, I'm originally from California and I was looking at possibly going back to the West coast, but. You really have to cast the net wide because you've got a couple, not necessarily strikes, but you've got a couple things going against you because you're going into a career field that like Talon said, some folks are a little reluctant maybe to hire you because you don't have the exact experience that they're looking for. So you have to be willing to not just look within your town. So yeah.


Joe (09:10.678)

All right. Well, on that note, so job searching is one thing, but even in the interview, what kind of questions, Dean, as you went through the process a year ago and Talin, as you're doing it right now, what kind of questions did, whether it was the town council or whatever hiring panel there might've been, what are they asking? Were they skeptical? Were they excited? Was it mixed feelings about that unique background of military service compared to more traditional candidates?


Talon Burgess (09:34.561)

Sure, so my experiences were I mean I Think they do kind of like the idea that I'm a veteran I mean, I think there's something there that I think they're really looking for fit, you know, is this person going to fit within their community. Yes, the knowledge questions are out there. You know, you do need to have some knowledge of, you know, our military lingo and local government are different. And you got to learn that like there are our PSR of news, there's a lot, you know, there's still a lot of different abbreviations that is really similar to military. But you have to learn these things you have, you know, capital improvement projects, he had pre like you need to have, you know, let's talk about legislation, there was just a lot of questions. the positions I'm going for like deputy city manager, city manager roles, depending on the role, like if you're going to be a department head for public works or finance or, you know, those kinds of questions are all going to be different. So there's that, but you know, in the jobs that I'm looking for, they definitely want to see what my knowledge base is, what have I experienced and then, you know, am I going to be a good fit for that job?


Dean Huard (10:52.405)

Yeah, it's hard because if you don't have the exact experience, then you have to find a way to translate it. Because I remember when I was getting interviewed, not being a city manager, but I talked a lot about one of my experiences when I was in Kuwait. We stood up five different, I call them mini cities, but in military speak, they FOBs.


Dean Huard (11:20.655)

And so I tried to make that relatable and say that, you know, look, yes, I've never been a city manager, but there's a lot of skills that I have that I did on active duty that, you know, that I think relate to this position. Because when I stood up Five Cities, you know, it had a lot to do with contracts and, you know, security, obviously. So there was a law enforcement aspect.


But no matter what you did, unless you're a garrison commander, which is a term that's used in the military, garrison commander or base commander, they're basically a city manager. But sometimes even garrison or base commanders have problems getting hired as well because some cities will say, well, that's nice what you did the military, but you weren't a city manager, you didn't work for a city. And even though the skill set, you do exactly the same thing. So it's again, huge challenge. Cause one of the things that I discovered was having had gone through all those interviews and like Talon, I interviewed for city manager and assistant city manager, deputy positions.

I think Talon and I even interviewed for the same position at Ranch & Raj for a deputy public works job. But what I discovered was I was told I was either overqualified for like a small town because the small town thought that I was going to leave. I was going to take my 34 years of leadership and then use that as a soundie or as a starting point and then go someplace else, or I was under qualified for a regular city, for a full service city, because I didn't have city on my resume. So, you know, for any veteran that's looking at going into local government, I would, one of my biggest piece of advice is try to put city on your resume as soon as possible. And you can do that through, and I think we're going to talk about it, but you can do that through the fellowship. You can do that by volunteering. You know, getting volunteering on one of the committees, economic development, planning and zoning, that I think will make you very marketable.


Joe (13:49.166)

Yeah, the ICMA program is one way to do it. But as you said, you can volunteer, you could just get in there however you can. So the, so it's on that resume. But I think what you said earlier was good advice to anything, whether it's local government veteran or not, just that being able to tell a story, a success story about what you did and accomplished that can convey across industries to what you're looking for is important. any stage of the career, any type of industry, that's what you got to do. It's one thing to have it on paper, but.

Joe (14:18.638)

boy, you're going to have to be in that room or on the zoom call with other other side and be able to, like you said, sell it and no one really wants to use that word sell it, but you got to sell yourself and your expertise. So what, maybe this was also case by case, depending on how you're feeling in the room, but did you downplay the military side of it? Did you upsell it kind of maybe in between depends on the audience. How did that go? Um, even if you have to tell specific stories and that's what your background is.


Joe (14:48.494)

Did you kind of redirect when they asked about that back towards city management stuff or did you, did you lean into it?


Dean Huard (14:56.047)

Well, again, I think it depends on who's interviewing you and their background too, because I had a, one of my interviews was with for the assistant city manager position of Mansfield, Texas, which is a separate Fort Hood. And Joe Smolenski is the city manager and he, so he's a veteran and it was probably one of the best interview experiences I ever had. Didn't get the job, but going into the interview, he appreciated the fact that, and honestly, I think there were 100 people that interviewed or sent resumes. So I made it to the finals of that one, but he was just really good about, look, we know you could do the current job because based on all the background experience and leadership you have, and he reiterated to me that it's all about fit. So in that instance, I did relate on, and he was looking for me to translate, you know, here's your resume, you've got all these different experiences, help the other people in the room understand what it is you did and how it's relatable. So that's what I had to do for that experience.


Joe (16:13.278)

Talon, as you go through it now, that word fit is used a lot in both directions. The people making the hiring decision want fit and then you as the, Hey, I'm going to go work here, regardless of what title it is, it needs to fit. But that can be tricky when, you know, the interview process, both sides are kind of, I don't want to say putting on a show, but they're, you know, like we said earlier, they're selling themselves on, on both directions. So how do you actually judge the fit on how you think it will be and how do you present your both genuinely but still in a way that would match what they're looking for. Because that could be a moving target or an ambiguous thing.


Talon Burgess (16:50.841)

It's important to do your research when looking into jobs like I'd look in if I'm looking at city manager jobs, right? I need to understand the city. I need to watch, you know, I'll watch the city council meetings I'd want to get an idea because the council is going to be the one interviewing me. So I need to figure out, you know, who who are they? Trying to understand their personality and then understand, you know, this what's the city looking for? What are their what are their goals? What's you know, what's the mission? So it's just finding an understanding of you know, when you're applying to a job. know the organization, know the leadership, and then that way you'll have a better foot forward in the process.


Joe (17:27.374)

Okay, so if you move through the interview process and you can get an offer, Dean, what was your experience, and again, Tal might be going through this any day now, but what was your experience with either early on or once the offer was on paper, formally made, on benefits, compensation negotiations, especially when the military maybe, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's typically a little bit more cut and dry with your rank in the scale. So it's kind of like, this is this is just what it's going to be. But how did you negotiate? And how did that fit into your decision to eventually take the job you're currently in?

Dean Huard (18:09.615)

Yeah, honestly, that was the first experience I'd ever had with a contract. And so, you know, working through, you know, I'm not an attorney. I took some law classes in college, but in that instance, you know, when I was given the offer, I went back to my Rolodex of friends and talked to them about... you know, some things and they recommended some things to counter with. Well, going all specifics here, but it just, that was a brand new experience for me is to, you know, like you said, most jobs don't have a contract with, but with city manager positions, you do have a severance clause. You know, if things don't work out that you'll, and I think it varies from contract to contract. It can go from, You know, one month, two months, salary, six months. So, yeah, so that made it a very, very unique experience for me is to having to deal with a contract.


Joe (19:15.054)

Did you, how did you find, as you said, you talked to some people you trusted and maybe have gone through this, but where'd you find the balance on, I don't want say pushing for more too much, but there is, there is that line of not wanting to overdo it, but also not necessarily just taking the first thing offered to you, whether it's at your current role or maybe some other jobs you were close with. So where do you, if, even if you're giving to advice to talent right now, what would you tell him? in terms of, hey, push for more and be ready to walk away from it. Because that's also a thing, right? Like who has the leverage there?


Dean Huard (19:46.319)

Yeah, I just think it's a personal, you know, that's a very personal answer because for me, I mean, I really wanted to be in this profession. And admittedly, it was the first city manager position. And I was interviewing, like I said earlier, for assistant city manager positions.


Joe (21:11.118)

Tell me what you think about that. Is that time back to that fit question? Is that part of the fit to just say this is, this is what they have or what they might have to offer. This is what I feel good about or not. How's your experience.


Talon Burgess (21:25.049)

I can imagine you gotta have to be kind of flexible. Like Dean said, we're getting a retirement. We're really just trying to get our foot in the door and start this career path. So it's more of an excitement to get our foot in the door and then we can start building our career from there.


Joe (21:51.182)

All right. So a few questions on how the job is actually going and telling you can also jump in based on your experience in the ICMA program and a few stops along the way. But Dean, as you, as you moved into that CAO role, are there any big surprises, even, even kind of going back to how the military skills and experience transition, any surprises for you, good or bad, not necessarily bad, but challenging? What were the biggest things to adjust to?


Dean Huard (22:21.103)

No, I've done a lot of reflection over this last year because it's a, I mean, like I said, I took the first city manager position that came around and, you know, looking back on it, just extremely grateful. And, you know, it's an opportunity to have city manager on your resume. Now, and keep in mind that the city that I'm a city manager for, it's very unique. It's 2 ,600 people. about 1 ,106 homes, a public park, and a lot of cities get their revenues from sales tax. And we do too, but the majority of our revenue is from property tax and some franchise fee. But it's a very small, very unique city. It's a gated community, so I also have to deal and work very closely with our housing association. But yeah, I've learned that... Dean needs to be more tactical. And you would think that as a veteran, 34 years in the army, that I would know what it means to be tactical. But because now some veterans will transition into a position where it's a full service city, they got a big staff, and I didn't have that experience. So I literally have a part -time bookkeeper and a part -time city secretary. So if there needs to be popsicles handed out of the park, that would be deemed for summer events. If the pipes needed to be wrapped at the park bathroom, that would be deemed. So yeah, that was a hard adjustment, but I just think it'll make me a better leader, a better manager in the future that I was able to be this tactical. But it did not come easy.


Joe (24:22.862)

Yeah, but it's also, I, even by the way you're saying it, um, I, I think you enjoy being out and about and in the real work, not necessarily just behind the desk, um, signing orders. So what did the ICMA's, Veterans and Local Government Management Program, were there, were there any specific learning experiences that did help both of you take the next step, not necessarily just to get the job, but as Dean said, just to adjust to it.

Talon Burgess (25:10.009)

I think it goes back to kind of what I was saying earlier. It helped fill like the gaps, the knowledge gaps that I wasn't aware of to learn the new terminology of an RFP request for a proposal or things that are involved with capital improvement projects. It was great because I did mine with the city of Indian Wells in California and what they did was they allowed me to just jump in each department. So I got to experience finance, I got to do public works.


I got to do an RFP. I got to submit things. I got to work with the finance director on the budget and see what that looked like when he would get with the other department head. So there was just a lot of stuff I got to see and kind of be a part of. So that helped fill some gaps that I think will help with my transition.


Joe (25:57.038)

Yeah, I think, Dean, you gave a similar answer last last episode where it was just the exposure to a lot of different things. And then being in that room when the, when the city town manager were getting the inputs and the making decisions.


Dean Huard (26:07.791)

Yeah, I, if, if the city of Georgetown is listening right now, I, I've got nothing but great things to say because they, um, yeah. And again, I, uh, I was living in a small town in Nolumil, Texas, just outside of Fort Hood. I could have done, um, could have pushed the easy button, uh, and done something very local, but Georgetown was a little further drive down the freeway. But, um, but I wanted to really learn from a full service city and Georgetown's touted as one of the fastest growing cities in the country. So when I went into Georgetown to sell the concept that I wanted to come in, because they had never done a fellowship through ICMA before, even though Georgetown itself has a high veteran population. But when I went in there, I tried to explain to them the concept and what I'm trying to do. And they just opened up their doors. I mean, literally, they allowed me to go to ICMA in Columbus. I had access to every department head. It wasn't as structured. It sounds like Talon, not to say that Talon's experience was any better, just that if I had any kind of feedback, I probably should have been more involved in some of the departments itself and received some more tangibles.

But I do think, because I've asked some of the staff how I got hired here. And I think having Georgetown on my resume, it was only four months, but the experience I got from there, I think helped me get this position. And then, you know, looking back on it, Georgetown is a huge resource. So I can go back, I've already called the finance director about questions.

I've got mentoring sessions with David Morgan, the city manager. So everybody there has been a great resource.


Joe (28:12.622)

Okay, so Dean, in your current spot though, how, I mean, you said it, it sounds like the staff is pretty small, small town, small staff, but how have you built relationships with your staff and maybe how did that differ from your time in the military?


Dean Huard (28:29.295)

You know, I think, Talon, I probably get this question a lot. And, you know, before I came on active duty, I did the corporate thing. I worked, like I said, I worked in the desert in corporate sales. And I think people are people. I mean, I don't think it's a, I don't think there's that much of a difference in how I'm treating people with my staff on active duty or, you know, here at, here in my office. So You just treat people well and they want to do things for you. Empower people and they're going to want to do things for you.


Joe (29:08.686)

Yeah, and I kind of asked that too to once again dispel that myth that it's just a military person barking out orders like you'd see in a movie. That's not how it goes. You got to build a relationship and build the respect, right?


Dean Huard (29:17.327)

No, I don't know. No, even in the Marine Core, we're telling. I don't think it's the same in Marine Core either, so yeah.


Joe (29:23.426)

That's, yeah, that's a whole other level. I'm not sure how the structure there is with your own HR department, but have you had conversations with HR about whether it's hiring vets specifically as part of it, but just the hiring in general, now that you're on the inside, we hear a lot about the, I don't want to say lack of talent pool, but like we got local governments everywhere have a lot of job openings, tough to compete with private sector jobs, all that stuff. But what were your conversations? have been like, whether it's internal to the Hills there or just other colleagues you knew in other locations, what is the back and forth between a manager and the HR group on hiring?


Dean Huard (30:11.983)

Well, so like Talon, I think we both become advocates for spreading the word on and I think it's important that people understand that when you want to make the transition to local government, it's not just like guys like Talon and I that, you know, that have a bachelor's, have a master's and want to go into city management. It's because I did a job fair with Henry Hayes and a couple others up at Fort Cavazos about a month or so ago. And we talked to soldiers that were getting out and we tried to emphasize the fact that, look, if you're a signal person, that translate to the IT department. If you're HR person, that translates to HR. If you're finance, so it doesn't have to be upper management only that's...getting involved in local government or that's doing this fellowship. It's for everybody.


Joe (31:14.222)

Yep. And a quick plug here for ICMA's human resources recruitment handbook, hiring veterans for local government positions. So that will also be linked wherever you're listening to this. A question that Lynn Phillips, the senior program manager for ICMA had on this interview was, do either of you have any suggestions on how municipalities that are not close to an active military installation might tap into that same veteran talent pool? We kind of talked about some of those hubs. There's a lot of bases in Texas, Southern California, the DC area, et cetera, but what about those smaller towns that don't have the immediate access? How can they get involved? And like you said, whether it's the manager, the senior level types, or just the skilled workers who are coming out that can do engineering, that can do public works, that can do all those things. How, how can those municipalities that don't have local access get it?


Talon Burgess (32:12.409)

I wonder just being a part, you know, staying active with ICMA and that's, and there's a skill bridge, right? So I think you make good points. Like somebody can be getting out at four years, you can be getting out of 20 years or you can be, you know, Dean 34 years. It's all different areas. And then it depends on what you want to do. But you know, some of these soldiers, Marines, what, you know, sailors, they go home too. And they're from those small towns and they're, and, uh, so they're able to, you know, they could do that, put out, put out that they're doing some kind of internship. or and then that will pull from ICMA, the veterans to go and be a part of their cities at their hometowns and their small hometown. So it's just reaching out and trying to get that out. The city needs to get that out saying that they want their veterans to come and work for their city or that they have these positions open for them.


Dean Huard (33:02.479)

Yeah, I think Talon's spot on because everybody's journey is different. Because going back to the original part of the interview about how we all got involved, I was a political science major, minor in public administration. My master's was in public administration. My first job out of college was managing two campaigns for the state legislature. So somebody like me, it kind of seemed like a no brainer. I would go do something like this eventually. But everybody has their path. Everybody comes into this in a different way. But I just think it's important that we kind of have a mission to talk to folks that maybe hadn't thought about it before. I guess it's kind of like talking to a high school senior about joining the military. Well, have you thought about joining the military? Because there's 200 different specialties that you could. know, be a part of. So I think that's our challenge. And then I think the next step for us is, I just was talking to, you know, TCMA today about possibly doing like a veterans advocate or standing committee for the state. That's something that ICMA is putting out for all of us is to whatever state you're in is to, you know, try to get established some type of standing committee for veterans to advocate even more.


Joe (34:34.318)

Yeah, I agree that that's it's always the state or even local level. It doesn't always have to go through ICMA necessarily. Um, and I think that it can go both ways there. The cities as Talon said, can maybe be a little bit more proactive trying to attract or recruit that, that crowd of people transitioning out. But also I think a lot of you individually do a great job. You too, specifically. That's how we met Talon, but there's, you know, Ben Effinger, the list goes on and on about.


ICMA member or not, there are a lot of people on LinkedIn and elsewhere that are advocating for that whole theme, but also individual people. And sometimes that's maybe the best way to connect really is just that individual level. So as you said, lots of different paths for everyone. But ICMA's Veterans and Local Government Management Program is available for both communities to get the talent and for veterans or soon to be veterans transitioning out. to get that foot in the door, do the fellowship and get some real experience. So we'll have that linked including the application windows in the next cycle and all that. So Dean Talon, thanks for your time today and thanks for your service. Appreciate it.


Dean Huard (35:45.293)

Thank you.

Talon Burgess (35:46.553)

Thank you, Joe.




Dean Huard, city manager, The Hills, Texas

Talon Burgess, assistant to the city manager, Rancho Mirage, California


Episode Notes

  • Networking and utilizing job search resources are crucial in the job search process for city county manager positions.
  • When interviewing, it is important to translate military experience into relatable skills for the local government role.
  • Negotiating and accepting or declining a job offer requires a balance between pushing for more and being flexible, considering factors such as retirement benefits.
  • The ICMA Veterans and Local Government Management Program provides valuable experiences and knowledge to help veterans transition into local government roles.
  • Building relationships with staff and treating people well is essential for effective leadership in local government or any industry.
  • Municipalities can tap into the veteran talent pool by actively reaching out to veterans and promoting opportunities for them to join local government.


  • 00:00 Introduction
  • 01:25 Job Search Process
  • 07:15 Networking and Job Search Resources
  • 09:11 Negotiating Job Offers
  • 16:05 Adjusting to the CAO Role
  • 28:29 Building Relationships with Staff
  • 29:57 Hiring Veterans and Tapping into the Talent Pool


Veterans Local Government Management Fellowship

Voices in Local Government Podcast EP27 Veterans in Local Government Management Program

ICMA Job Center

Human Resources Recruitment Handbook: Hiring Veterans for Local Government Positions



New, Reduced Membership Dues

A new, reduced dues rate is available for CAOs/ACAOs, along with additional discounts for those in smaller communities, has been implemented. Learn more and be sure to join or renew today!