Transcripts

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Joe:
Welcome to Voices in Local Government, an ICMA podcast. My name is Joe Superville with us to share actionable next steps on what local governments can do about affordable housing and its direct tie into economic mobility is Danielle Aragoni, Managing Director for Policy and Solutions at the National Housing Trust. And Laura Guderes, ICMA's Director of Research. Thanks for joining us today.

Danielle:
Glad to be here. Thanks for Having me.

Laura:
Glad to be here.

Joe:
So Danielle, let's start with you. Prior to NHT, you've accomplished much at AARP, the US Department of Housing and Development and more. Can you give the audience a little bit of insight to your perspective on the affordable housing challenges from your experience both inside and outside of government?

Danielle:
Sure, yeah, happy to do that. I want to think back over sort of all the work that I've done over the last couple of decades. It's always rooted in how do we solve this housing challenge? Like one of my first professional jobs was at EPA, where we were looking to sort of solve the question of how do you create smart growth? How do you preserve and protect natural resources by thinking differently about land use development patterns? And naturally that raises the question of, well, what does that mean for affordable housing? If we're creating denser communities, aren't we displacing people who... traditionally access lower cost housing. When I shifted over to HUD, some of the same challenges persisted. At that point, we were using sort of a sustainable communities approach and grants all around the country to really think differently about how we're developing at a regional scale and connecting housing to transportation, to public spaces in ways that allowed people to live more affordably and have choices in their types of housing. When I moved over to AARP, I left government, went over to AARP, and it turns out the AARP also has a lot to say and a lot of interest in the topic of affordable housing and really make sure that we're creating the right kind of units that allow people to age in place well. That means that they're accessible, certainly from a certain perspective, but that also means just people have choice in their communities. They can downsize into a smaller home in a walkable neighborhood if they so choose. Those are the kinds of housing solutions that really make the difference. And then now here at National Housing Trust, our 24-7 job is how do we bring affordable units online? In this case, it's specifically subsidized units that serves the lowest income people. And we work throughout the Mid-Atlantic to do that. And then I'll say that the topic of housing extends to my sort of free time too. I felt compelled to dive into the niche topic of how climate change really impacts older adults and ended up writing a book on the topic, which not surprisingly, perhaps, Housing is part of the solution. Housing is part of how we create more climate resilient communities. And we'll talk about that more in the hour, I think.

Joe:
Laura, can you explain to the audience, why is economic mobility a priority for ICMA? Why is it important?

Laura:
Sure, I think there's a few different ways to answer that question, but before I get into any of them, I think just to be clear about what we mean by that, if it's not a familiar phrase to all listeners. I mean, I think one way to think about it is kind of similar to that American dream ideal, like you work hard, everybody should have the chance to work hard and get ahead. And I think that is sort of echoed in the ICMA code of ethics and the supplementary Association and to the local government management profession, they talk about creating opportunities for all, an obligation to do so and to ensure that there aren't barriers to accessing services provided by a local government. Unfortunately, there's plenty of research and data and just lived experience and people's perspectives out there that would suggest that despite well-intentioned you know, individuals and local governments that hasn't necessarily, that approach hasn't necessarily served all equally, served all communities equally. You know, you may be familiar with research that talks about how, you know, your zip code is often a predictor, better predictor than many other things in terms of your, you know, your long-term outcomes. So, you know, again, despite good intentions, we know that people in communities continue to live in poverty and many struggle to do better than their parents did. So ICMA now, or more recently I should say, was fortunate to receive a grant from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation that is enabling us to spend this year helping local decision makers, local government leaders understand what economic mobility really means, what drives it, and then what are some opportunities that our members and their teams can do in partnership. with a number of others to support conditions that really create more opportunities for all residents in their communities. So as part of this larger network of organizations working on this topic, we've sort of embraced this holistic definition of economic mobility that the Gates Foundation and others have kind of put out into the world, which is not just rooted in financial success for individuals and their families, but it also implies that people have power and autonomy over their own lives. So the ability to make choices, as Danielle was talking about with respect to housing and other decisions in their lives. And also that they feel a sense of belonging, that all people feel a sense of belonging to their community. So we may get into that as, you know, you think about some of the pushback that you sometimes hear about affordable housing. So. As part of our activities through this funding, we are trying to create opportunities for our broader membership to learn more about these topics and the intersecting factors that drive economic mobility and opportunity in communities. And then also we're doing some focused work. We're working with a small cohort of 10 local governments of in different parts of the country of very diverse sizes and demographics. who all received some modest funding to spend several months over the course of this year kind of learning about what are the most pressing issues in their local communities and beginning to think about ways to not just wrap their arms around the problem, but start to think about how to begin to solve it. And I would just also add that this really is in line with the ICMA's initiative that we've been trying to roll out this year called Local Government Reimagined, which we see as a framework for a really long-term commitment to helping our members and their teams think about how to reimagine approaches to leadership, to management, to operations, with a sort of long-term goal of creating more resilient and equitable communities.

Joe:
Okay, so the original 10 communities you mentioned as part of that program, the funding or the initial launch isn't just limited to them, right? The goal is also to share what works, what doesn't, best practices, case studies, and maybe some toolkits or resources for other communities to learn.

Laura:
Absolutely. There are a number of really kind of comprehensive and open access resources that have been supported as part of this work even before ICMA formally joined the movement, so to speak. So there are resources out there. I'll name a few here. We link to these on our website, but we can talk about that a little bit later. But on their resources. around mobility metrics and sort of beginning to take steps to plan, to first identify what your local issues are and then begin to plan to form partnerships and figure out steps to begin to try to address them. There are resources, there's an economic mobility catalog that's a free open access website that has a whole range of sample policies, programs. initiatives that have actually been tested and evaluated by local governments of a range of sizes. So those are kind of inspirational and also can show you the evidence behind them. And then, you know, we're so grateful to have this opportunity to connect with Danielle and the National Housing Trust because you know, we've known that affordable housing has been sort of an issue where our members have been asking for support in working on for quite some time now. And so This grant has enabled us to formally partner with NHDP and Danielle to bring her to our members and provide a free learning opportunity for people that will be at our conference.

Joe:
All right. And the website, icma.org-EMO, you can find everything in the podcast page itself will also have all this linked, but it seems like affordable housing and economic mobility are tied together. Um, the housing piece of it might, might be the biggest variable. So Specific Gates funding aside, the question that comes up on every episode, no matter what the topic is, is how is this getting paid for? So I think everyone's familiar with the Inflation Reduction Act and some of the other federal dollars. But question for both of you to speak to the local government manager or department head out there listening right now that is excited and said, this is great. We need to do better at this. But how are we going to pay for it? What's the next step, et cetera? So let's start there. How does it get paid for?

Danielle:
I can jump in on that. I mean, first I want to sort of underscore what you said, which is just the centrality of housing to economic mobility. I think it's really hard to imagine anyone thriving at school or at work or from a health perspective without stable and secure housing. And so knowing that, and we see that with our residents, we have 34 properties across the mid Atlantic and we are committed to this work because we know that providing a safe and stable and affordable home is that launching pad to success. I was just at an event at one of our properties in Fredericksburg, Virginia, where we learned that several of the residents of our property, which is a Section 8 project-based property, eventually were able to save money and move out and buy homes in the community. In that particular case, it's many Afghan refugees who've arrived. So just knowing that is the sort of opportunity that's presented by stable housing is critical. And then I would say it's really a boon time. I mean, I think for all of the sort of challenges that housing faces perennially. Housing is never the topic issue at presidential debates. It's never the top issue on the news, but it's something that affects all of our lives. Having said that and having acknowledged how challenging it is over the years and continues to be, this is kind of a boon time for housing in many ways. And I think particularly born out of the recognition that there are a lot of investments that can be made to improve housing, to advance housing, to diversify housing with strategic importance, strategic investments that also come out of sort of a climate motivation. So I think about things like home rebates and investments and opportunities to make existing housing more energy efficient. Those kinds of investments now that are subsidized by the federal government as part of the Inflation Reduction Act help that housing to be more secure. They help those residents to be able to stabilize and manage their utility costs when they're starting to encounter months long days of 110 plus degrees, which is conditions we've never seen before. So really tying the sort of climate impacts or the climate opportunities into housing is allowing for new opportunities for owners, whether they're individual owners or multifamily owners to upgrade housing and to maintain housing in ways it's gonna. better stay on the test of time and better protect residents. So that's a start, certainly.

Joe:
All right, so let's jump ahead a little bit. You brought up climate again. The housing issue itself is complicated enough and can seem overwhelming and almost impossible to solve. When you start with going down the climate path, people can get not necessarily intimidated, but overwhelmed maybe. So when you add those two things together, we're gonna get into specific solutions, but what would you say to the city manager who's just... thinking how can I possibly solve these two very complex, even individually problems, but when you add them together, and as you just explained, they're tied because the sustainability and the environmental concerns are tied into housing. How can you break that down into more manageable pieces to even understand, let alone start to solve?

Laura:
I think just to back up a moment, Joe, kind of going back to these big all-encompassing federal programs and the boon time that Danielle referenced. I'm sure people get a little fatigued at hearing those mentioned a lot, but I think it's important to realize that we need to think creatively about, as Danielle was just saying, just because a program is climate XYZ doesn't mean it can't also work on housing. kind of thinking creatively and strategically about how you can work on some of these issues simultaneously. But I also think that, I mean, while I get that these are, you know, systems change problems and are going to take long-term and multifaceted solutions, I mean, just throwing up your hands and refusing to do anything about it is obviously not the way to start. So with our cohort that we are working with, we encourage them to do something. Many are new to this conversation. I mean, they might be working on these unintentionally, I suppose, in different ways, but most, if not all, sorry, few, if any, had a economic mobility initiative already in existence in their community. So we encourage them to kind of think small. Start with a manageable piece, as you suggested, and don't jump over the step of wrapping your mind around the problem. A number of our communities are focused on housing and are using these modest funds to fund the, to fund a sort of housing assessment or study. And as a part of that process, really thinking intentionally about the community engagement piece. So especially if you're really looking at finding a system that works better for the people that maybe most need support at the lower end of the income spectrum. not assuming that we know what the problem is and we know the interventions that are gonna be required to solve it, but finding out, you know, is it, what is the sort of top priority issue? Is it housing itself or is it being able to get transportation to work and sort of be able to kind of connect the different dots in your life, so to speak. So I think just digging in and kind of defining something as a sort of phase zero, if you will. is not a bad place to start. And again, we're providing some modest resources to support this, but I mean, these don't necessarily need to be things that are even externally funded if you have the right staff that are motivated and committed to doing this work.

Joe:
Okay, Danielle, what does NHTS research say about the housing market specifically? Is there anything actionable or how does it translate to everything you've already discussed? And is there, as Laura just said, maybe step one is just trying to understand it better.

Danielle:
Absolutely.

Joe:
So is there any kind of initial research or key points, high level stuff you can share with the audience now?

Danielle:
Yeah, I'll share a couple, I think, and I'll attribute this to our colleagues at the National Income Housing Coalition who do really fantastic work. We work under the premise or the recognition that we're short about 7 million units of housing in this country that would be available to the very lowest income households. And that's a huge hole to dig ourselves out of that has consequences for every income level above that because it's just, it's that addition that means people are competing for scarce units, it affects everyone. And we've seen the last couple of years, the escalation of rents, we've seen the increase in the cost of materials to build homes. I mean, so we know that there's a real crisis underway. That's just in terms of supply. Then when you think about sort of where do things stand with the existing affordable housing stock, and I'll hear, I'll speak a little bit to. The importance of the low income housing tax credit, which has been a really important federal source of funding to create affordable subsidized housing. Those have time restrictions. They are required to remain affordable for 30 years. Program's been around more than 30 years. So a lot of those units are starting to roll out of their affordability requirements. I mean that we're losing about 10,000 units a year just to that. And then when you layer on top of that, some of the climate challenges that I touched on. that's an even greater risk. So I repeat this statistic often and will acknowledge the leadership here of Louisiana Housing Corporation, which is the state housing finance agency. They said that they've lost 20% of their affordable units in 10 years due to disasters. So these are pretty significant hurdles to overcome, even with all the great funding resources that are out there and the creative uses that we've talked about. But... Related to that then I would say is that the answer isn't always more money. It certainly is, can be, has to be part of the problem. But it's also when we think about supply, that you can make changes that don't require federal funds to do that. Thankfully there's some incentives out there right now to do it in the form of a new pathways to removing obstacles program out of HUD that encourages communities to rethink their zoning. But even if you're not interested in taking a dollar from the federal government. There is an opportunity to examine what your housing stock looks like now. How many three, four bedroom houses are there? How does that map against the demographics of who lives in your community? We're finding that there are more and more single person households. And yet we're not creating the kind of housing that is suitable or appropriate for or accessible or affordable to those smaller households. So just doing the sort of demographic mapping is a really important clue. to figure out what are the kinds of housing solutions that you need to be bringing online in your city, in your town, in your village. And then you can go out and sort of look for those federal funding resources, those state funding resources to get there.

Joe:
Okay, I'm glad you brought up the mapping because when someone hears the phrase affordable housing, that to me can mean different things to different people and the stereotype might be the lower end because that's perhaps the most dire need, at least immediately. But even that example you gave in Virginia with people starting out in there and then being able to save to then buy their own home. How does that scale or put another way, if there's a manager, whether it's County town, small city that has. Programs addressing maybe the lower end, but they bring up, Hey, I have this gap for the middle or like the lower middle part. There's, there's a spectrum, I guess is what I'm saying. So how do you, how do you distinguish that and do these programs? Are they applicable and do they help arrange of that spectrum to serve a wider range of residents, how does that part work? Cause it can get a little tricky when you use just the phrase affordable, cause affordable means different things to different people.

Danielle:
It really does. I think it's one of the most sort of widely misinterpreted, misunderstood, hot button words that are out there oftentimes. It's why a lot of people don't use the words. They use workforce housing, they use attainable housing, they use missing middle housing, lots of other things. I think no matter what you call it, I think what we're really talking about is doing an honest assessment of who lives in your community. And I do mean looking at household size, looking at age. You know, we are aging as a country. I'll... I can't not say this by virtue of having been at AARP for five years, we are growing older as a country. By 2034, we'll have more people over 65 than under 18 for the first time ever. So that necessitates a very different kind of conversation about what is our housing stock and who we need to serve. And indeed, many of the housing solutions that would suit that need do not come with federal subsidy, don't require federal subsidy. What they require is a loosening of building restrictions that would allow for... Accessory dwelling units to be built or more small multifamily housing to be built or just multifamily housing to be built period Even if it's market rate multifamily housing in a community that doesn't currently have apartment buildings You're providing an opportunity for people that currently is not being met by the market So yeah, there's a wide array whether you're talking subsidized or not whether you're talking single-family or detached or sing or attached Um, there's a whole gamut of housing solutions that each community really should be intentional about cultivating.

Joe:
Okay, and Laura, you used the phrase belonging earlier, community belonging, community outreach. Everything Danielle just laid out for us, how does that play into a community? It's one of those cliches like, we're all a community, but it's true. So how does the housing actually make that a reality instead of just a buzzword or something a politician would say? Because our audience are not politicians. They're trying to come up with practical answers.

Laura:
Sure, and not to use another jargony term, but it's a both and, right? I mean, I would agree with everything Danielle said, and then just, but you started by sort of drawing a contrast to the stereotypical low income or definition of affordable housing. And I just wanna push back and say, that is an essential piece of the puzzle too, right? Again, going back to that American dream idea, I mean, and the fact that Another kind of topical issue that we hear a lot of interest in, you know, at our conference and through other means is dealing with the unhoused crisis in many communities across the country. So, I mean, there are people at the lower end of the spectrum that need a place to live, and I think we can all agree with that. You're likely to see that not in my backyard, NBISM, in these conversations when it comes down to where are we going to place it. But we also... kind of need to do some work, I think, about de-stigmatizing that population. And one of the communities that's a part of our cohort, the city of Morgan Hill, California, has really leaned into this and embraced that notion of fostering a sense of belonging. They're typically thought of as an affluent community. They're in the Silicon Valley, but what they're trying to do as a part of this work is really put a human face on the affordable housing. population in their community and ensure that they aren't treated like second class citizens and that they're an essential part of that community's fabric and they want that to be a feeling that goes two ways, if you will.

Joe:
Okay. So you touched on a few of them already, but let's get into actual solutions. Daniel, can you, it's, it's a tough question to answer on a short podcast, but can you list out some of the best practices for climate friendly, affordable housing, not just the what, but the how, or the first step again, with audience, um, learning about this and trying to understand more and wrap their head around the research, but what, what's the actionable next step that they can take?

Danielle:
Well, I think maybe I'll start by sort of painting a picture of what I think sort of resilient housing looks like and what should be working toward. And I think it's a lot of the things we've been talking about today. It's often smaller homes, it's having a mix of attached and semi-attached homes, it's incorporating energy efficiency and decarbonization, which is a term that's increasingly being used for homes in which we're really trying to take fossil fuels out of the home and replace them with renewable sources. So panels on the roof. electric appliances inside.

Joe:
Sorry to interrupt, but is that mutually exclusive, getting back to that word affordable, when you start adding on solar panels and updated infrastructure, can that create a problem with the equation on the cost and then kind of almost like self-eliminated? Or is that not true? Or has the technology made it so that it can be both?

Danielle:
I think there are times when it feels like that thing that needs to be X'd out of the budget because it's not affordable, but this is where I'll go back to this being a boon time for housing. There've never been resources like there are today to incentivize and install some of these equipment, these components. Solar panels alone, there's tax credits up to like 70% depending on the condition of the property. But I would also say that increasingly smart housing agencies, when they're allocating those very scarce resources, they're saying you have to build to these standards. You have to make sure that housing is energy efficiency, that it's equipped for a net zero future, that it's going to protect indoor air quality for residents, that it's going to foster that sense of community, that it's going to be built out of harm's way. There's a huge amount of HUD subsidized properties right now, sadly, that are in areas that face increased risk to natural disasters as compared to market rate housing. And that... disproportionately impacts renters, obviously it disproportionately impacts communities of color. So housing finance agencies are doing their part to saying going forward, we need to make sure that this housing is constructed well and it's constructed out of harm's way. And I would say that it is doable. We do it in our portfolio increasingly. So I think of a couple of properties that we recently brought online. One of them is called Liberty Place. It's a 71 unit building in downtown DC. It's lead gold. It's beautiful. It's near transit. I think it's near two or three transit stops. It's a gorgeous property. It sits really nicely in the neighborhood and people love living there. Another one is called Savannah Apartments. It's an older building that we've purchased and retrofitted around the corner from a metro stop. We've got solar panels on the roof. We've got an electric heat pump for heating and cooling. And frankly, we use that as an example of what's possible. Just this year for Earth Day, we had the Deputy Secretary from HUD. and a White House representative come out and look at our property and celebrate it, lift it up as an example of what is possible. So it's challenging, but it can be done.

Joe:
And if that supply of those type of examples you just gave, if that supply can increase, will that also help the hypothetical costs stay down? Cause it seems

Danielle:
Absolutely,

Joe:
like it does. Yeah.

Danielle:
absolutely. Oftentimes affordable housing has really been that sort of market leader, right? Because there is, we always try so hard to make these dollars stretch as far as they can. And so we layer on all these other sort of expectations about what affordable housing can and should do, which can be helpful because it begins to build the marketplace, build this sort of job market for skilled professionals to both manufacture the solar panels and install them. Right now, and... The Inflation Reduction Act is just gonna sort of put that all on steroids.

Joe:
Laura, are there any other kind of beyond the partnerships or even the federal funding that we've touched on? Are there any other specific tactics local governments can implement sooner rather than later?

Laura:
sure and I'll name a couple and I want I do want to come back to the partnerships piece but you know I think Danielle and I both have a background in planning and so zoning you know we would be remiss not to mention that as a specific tool so in just getting even more specific about what can be done there Danielle was talking about kind of the often referred to as that missing middle housing but making sure that your zoning regulations are updated so that they not only allow but maybe even encourage different scales of housing development. We were just a number of ICMA colleagues were just in Detroit at the National Brownfields Conference, which is about redevelopment and you know topic that came up in some of those conversations is this notion of incremental development and so that can also be an economic mobility strategy where you are as a community even a small one you're creating the opportunity for just a single property to redevelop that can house more than one family. And maybe it's being developed by somebody who lives down the street, who was able to kind of make that investment to start to see it as an income generating opportunity for them. So that's just one. I think that, again, especially, we're not assuming that if you're a smaller community, that you're gonna be able to wave a magic wand and in one or five years, magically change the supply, but... Some little things on the education and outreach side when developers are coming to you and talking about potential ideas for doing things in your community or when you're going out and facilitating those conversations on your own. Kind of talking about in a slightly different way, in a more specific way about who you're trying to solve and what you're trying to do. I mean, that is a step. But going back to the partnerships piece, local governments are... probably unmatched conveners. I mean, they can bring people to the table. So just kind of facilitating those connections, getting people in a room and kind of just letting the conversation flow. I mean, that is not an insignificant step. And so those are just a few that come to mind. I don't know if Danielle, anything you would add there on the more specific, kind of softer side.

Danielle:
Yeah, a couple of things. I mean, I think I agree with all those, Laura, absolutely. And one thing that comes to mind is that we haven't talked about community land trusts yet and just the importance of them as a player in this affordable housing ecosystem. For those who don't know, community land trusts are nonprofit organizations who retain, who develop property, develop, develop homes, retain the ownership property on the land alone so that the home becomes the asset that is sold. And what that means, what that means is that the cost, of the home to be purchased or to rent comes down a lot. That preservation is kind of locked in permanently because the nonprofit isn't seeking to make a profit on their share of the ownership, but the residents themselves can nevertheless still develop some equity, gain some equity and pass it along still at a affordable level to the next owner. So if there isn't a community land trust in your community, do some research, reach out to groups who do this. Grounded Solutions Network is a terrific one. They're a partner of ours. That is a really important part of kind of the ecosystem of affordable housing, I would say, particularly at a smaller scale, particularly in places where maybe there's not a tradition of large multifamily affordable housing. The other thing I would say is just thinking about your public resources. I mean, we've kind of gone back and forth on can you do this without funding and how much is funding needed? The reality is that you will always be able to drive housing deeper in terms of affordability by offering some subsidy. And so whether it's a recordation tax in your community or whether it's a bond, being able to sort of put some dollars into this challenge and really carefully explain to elected officials, to residents, to voters, why this is important, why this is an investment in our economy. Because if we're not able to create and maintain our affordable housing, that's a downward spiral for communities. Workers will leave, wages will have to rise. It does not... serve the community well to not be watching the store in terms of making sure there's enough affordable housing.

Joe:
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up too, because what does the research say in terms of long-term revenue for a local government with affordable housing? With the caveat, everything you just mentioned, like the workers, the other jobs, every everything, we'd need another economist to come in here and explain. I don't understand it, but.

Danielle:
I'm afraid it goes beyond my skill set, but I would say, I almost asked the question, what are the consequences of not providing affordable housing?

Danielle:
It'd be much higher. You're looking at displacement of people. You're looking at clearly the homelessness epidemic that we have in our country, which is increasingly challenging to solve. You see health effects among children and older adults who have to move homes if they're displaced, if they're evicted. You see... inability to be upward mobile, which is the whole point of the economic mobility workshop. You just can't help people thrive and gain that upward mobility without stable housing.

Laura:
When you layer in the climate question, right? So Joe, you mentioned, sometimes that's at an additional cost, but what are the long-term consequences of not doing that? As you said, or both I think of you have said, it's not when, it's not if you're going to have to deal with a climate-related crisis at some point in your community, it's when, and you probably already have, and we have research that show well over half of local governments have had. a major natural disaster in the last, I think it's five years, I'd have to verify my statistic, but it's very common and it's only going to get worse.

Joe:
So it's not just about money and revenue, even though we know those things are important. Laurie, we've talked about a couple of times now, local government officials trying to create that sense of belonging and community involvement. And we are all in this together. So retaining the population, um, making sure that population is on the kind of all path in the same direction to use another analogy, um, how does that fit in? What are your thoughts on that? And is it. Is that always in conflict with the money equation or can it can it you said both and earlier? Is that another example of both and?

Laura:
Those are questions that we asked when we invited applications for this cohort opportunity was, how does economic mobility kind of fit within existing strategic plans, priorities, or even the mission of your local government? Often you hear a mission statement of, you know, quality community for all or something along those lines. And that's a big... That's a big sweeping statement to make. And we sort of encourage people to think about, maybe where are you falling short there? So you sort of already put your stake in the sand, but I think everybody knows there's opportunities to do their job a little bit better. And so kind of whether it's specific to the issue of housing and affordable housing, or it's in another dimension within this broad economic mobility conversation, I think... I think you can find sort of a mission or a rallying cry for people to organize around for a number of the communities in our cohort. They've sort of unprovoked talked about the fact that they grew up in the people in leadership positions grew up in the communities now that they serve and many people that they grew up with have moved away and many of their children are planning to move away. especially in these smaller towns, they really don't, they want to see that, they don't want to see that continue and they want it to be a place that people grow up and want to raise a family and stay in. And that is going to mean sort of being able to accommodate those people at all points in their lives. And that's going to be different income levels at different times. So I think sometimes just boiling it down to dollars and cents is a bit short-sighted. And so I think it's an opportunity for local governments to be the leaders in encouraging a sort of more holistic conversation and emphasizing not just the, again, the technical skills that they bring to it and the data, but also the need for some empathy and some humility and just to listen to what people need.

Joe:
Yeah, and to make good on those promises or those slogans that look good on a sign or a piece of paper, but actually mean something to someone. And also to get away from that, the local federal state, whatever level, the cliche of government is just a nameless, faceless entity. But it's not. It's real, especially at the local level. It's real people doing real things. And I think the ICMA membership and audience knows that. And this is just another chance to make good on it. So last question. greatly vary in terms of staff size, resources, budgets and all this. So for that city manager, even department head listening, and we've talked about next steps, but they've got a million and one things to do. So what is the most common role, not necessarily just a title, but like a skillset, who on staff could be a go-to for these types of projects that the both of you have worked with already in person? And what should a... What should a leader kind of look for and hey, I need a go to point person for affordable housing, economic mobility, all of this.

Laura:
Well, just I would say generally across, again, the whole range of economic mobility initiatives, we definitely see the managers being an essential seat at the table. We have a number of planners, people who are sort of naturally inclined to see the connection between different silos and functions. But I also think that it's in some of these technical skills, again, if you're going to be doing some number crunching and you really want to look carefully at what data is telling you and not telling you. You know, those are those, those individuals on your team that have that interest and skill. Great. But I think also finding someone or some multiple someones who really believe in the work and can champion it and can have really candid conversations about why this is so important. I mean, those are sort of your unicorns that are going to be essential to accelerating change.

Danielle:
And I might just add to that as someone who was in the government for a long time and now is outside in the nonprofit advocacy sector, I think, you know, don't forget to look at your outside external partners who can be sort of thought partners to you in designing programs or thinking about incentives or approaches that can help solve the problems that they experience as they're seeking to develop resilient, affordable housing. There's a lot of expertise and insight there and often a lot of commitment to achieve some of the same goals as the city manager.

Joe:
Yeah. And that was kind of the day to day question, but really what you might need as an expert like Danielle, right? Right. Right in front of us right now on this podcast, and you can learn more about affordable housing and economic mobility at the ICMA annual conference in Austin, September 32, October 4, Danielle's workshop will be on October 2nd linked on the podcast page of wherever you're listening right now. Her book is also, or will be available, climate resilience for an aging nation. put in discount code webinar to save 30% on that. And ICMA also has the EMO economic mobility resources that Laura mentioned earlier. You can find those on icma.org slash EMO for webinars, some other resources, toolkits, and some lessons that these first 10 from the cohort are learning in real time right now. We're gonna share those stories and make sure everyone else can learn. from their journey. So Danielle, Laura, thanks for all your work on affordable housing and economic mobility as local government leaders share ideas to address these large-scale complex and difficult challenges, but important. So thanks again for your time. Thanks for your expertise.

Danielle:
Thank you.

Laura:
Thanks, Joe.

 

Episode is sponsored by

Guest Information

Danielle Arigoni, managing director for policy and solutions, National Housing Trust

Laura Goddeeris, director of research, ICMA

Episode Notes

Actionable next steps on what local governments can do about affordable housing, and its direct tie-in to community dynamics and economic mobility opportunities for residents.

Resources:

ICMA Economic Mobility and Opportunity Tools and Resources
 

ICMA Annual Conference, Austin, Texas

Free Breakfast Workshop with Danielle Arigoni: Affordable, Climate-Friendly Housing as a Pathway for Economic Mobility

October 2, 2023
7:45am to 9:45am CT

Austin Convention Center
Room: Meeting Room 4

Climate Resilience for an Aging Nation, by Danielle Arigoni. Use promo code "webinar" for a 30% discount.

Free Workshops: 

Sep 13, 2023 - 1:00pm - 2:30pm ET - Best Practices in Optimizing Data to Advance Economic Mobility

Sep 20, 2023 - 1:00pm - 2:30pm ET - Beyond the Data: Charting a Path to Economic Opportunity Through Storytelling
 

More from ICMA strategic partner, Cigna:

Local government healthcare resources